I found the bullet with my planer while prepping rough stock. I like to keep a an organized and clean shop. Many modern luthiers use Titebond red cap (original) for the construction of guitars and ukuleles and more. Liked the article. Still, there is some very useful information here. My next question would be what is better TiteBond – Gorrilla Glue – Elmers Wood Glue. To disassemble an instrument put together with Titebond original, simply add heat, like that from an iron. So for me the only things left are price and color. Haven’t noticed any problems yet. I wonder if there is any difference between the three in the visibility of the glue line on light-colored woods. Is this them covering themselves legally or should I be more careful? un-air-conditioned garage workshop. Has anyone had any similar problems? So our stuff is probably more stable than most places. While I’m not exactly made of money, my projects tend to be on the small side, and not all THAT frequent, so I use exclusively Titebond III just so I don’t have to think about it… And may I say, maybe your comment was an Arizona-influenced thing, but I’ll take all the waterproofing I can get for outdoor furniture where it rains more than once a year, LOL! Would Old Brown Glue be any dofferent? Is there nothing that can be added to II or III that can help? When I visited Highland Hardware last month I picked up several things I wanted to test out and one of them was a bottle of the Titebond Liquid Hide Wood Glue from Titebond. This will work on exterior applications, even those in highly moist locations. (as eluded to but not “revealed” by poster), Titebond Extend is a product, not a technique. Titebond makes outstanding adhesives, but I would never recommend their hide glue. Now this might be off topic but how does carpenter yellow glue compare to the titebond one? Maybe Titebond III doesn’t penetrate the wood fibers as well as Titebond II? $11.98. Violin makers still use hide glue in making traditional instruments like violins and cellos and also for repairing them. This take a lot more elbow grease but it is well worth it and I saved ton’s of money in material and potential replacement costs! Glues Used In Guitar Repair. (I knew they were different, but figured it was just a way for the company to make more money). Overview. :). I repair a lot of furniture and Gorilla Glue, or any other polyurethane glue is not really glue at all, it’s a polyurethane foam that sticks to things well. The glue is stronger but the wood fails less frequently? I’d recommend epoxy for your paddles. :). West System.com and System Three,com have free download user guides. Reason 3 is that TB 2 and TB 3 have a reputation of creeping under sustained strain. Liquid hide glue, however, is considered to be inferior to traditional hot hide glue in strenght, but is a lot easier to use, with it’s long working time. It doesn’t stick to itself, which makes repairs a pain in the butt joint. Now I don’t know about anyone else but to me that is NOT “waterproof”. This website uses cookies to store information on your computer. You’ll probably notice liquid hide has an expiration date on the bottom of the bottle. I don’t know their specific limitations, but I think any of these glues would have resulted in the same gloopy mess. Titebond Original Wood Glue is quite common.. The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary . Glue isn’t a great filler. white spruce in in the mid to upper 20 pound per cubic foot range, which is light. I’ve recently taken up some pressure laminate testing with TiteBond III, whereas a ‘glass soaked (with TiteBond III) skin is applied over a wooden substrate (plywood). Wood glue would not be a good option. Titebond II @ 150F Strength 1750 psi Wood failure rate 6%, Titebond III Strength 4000 psi Wood failure rate 57% I do find that applying the glue with a brush gives me a good control of the covered surfaces and I do like that the brush can simply be washed with hot water at the end of the day. It requires no mixing, heating or stirring. where I want to make sure a joint is particularly strong I would use one of the traditional glues and I would also only use the traditional glues on instruments. Was it pre or post construction? Not for any particular reason, just mostly because I can usually only afford one bottle at a time. Choose Titebond 16 fl. I DO want the wood (yellow cedar) to silver uniformly. My tests have shown you get about 20% – 30% of the peel strength on PVA’s with epoxy. As I mentioned previously, my (and others) tests show the usually available epoxies, don’t stick well to PVA’s like TiteBond. Btw titebond liquid hide isn’t a true hide glue but synthetic, only OBG uses high quality hide glue. Because you mention Luthiers, why not Tightbond 50? Titebond II will easily come off your fingers by rubbing them together, whereas original titebond will coat you fingers and even if you try to rub it off. I’m planning to glue a couple of hundred small (+- 1 1/2 sq” surface area) miters. I had to go through a whole stack of 2×4’s just to find a few that were relatively straight grained and defect free, but it’s worth the trouble if you want light weight. I will be using 2″ x 6″ x 8′ lumber, and the bench will be 3′ x 96″. However, I’ve never heard of birdsmouth construction techniques, so I will definitely do a Google search and look into it…thanks for letting me know about it because like you said, I’m sure weight will be an issue with the paddles. FREE Shipping on orders over $25 shipped by Amazon. In personal and other independent testing, it softens and weakens considerably when immersed or well soaked, though it does seem to regain much, if not all of it’s strength when dried. Also noted above, where you could theoretically run into trouble is sustained higher temperature applications. I am cautious not say that this matches the original hot hide glue but I still think it is a good alternative for certain work. THis is why I have no problem recommending it for bonding a joint already coated with PVA. DUDE!!! Visit our sister site, Common Woodworking, to follow along with Paul's beginner projects and techniques to build your skill. Right now though is pretty messy because I’m pack it up. If looking for a quality, non-amine cure epoxy (non-blushing, less reactive to people), try Raka or one of the products at Progressive Polymers. It breaks or de-polymerizes the surface molecules, which creates little fingers of broken carbon molecules, so the epoxy has something to “key” into. Titebond began as a wood glue brand. As with all PVA’s (what TiteBond is), it suffers from joint creep under load and this is accelerated with moisture. If you did stock your shop with all three you’d also have to try to use up all three over the course of a year or so before the glue goes bad. Any advice would be greatly appreciated, thank you! Hello Paul, I am about to perform a massive glue-up of a roubo workbench’s legs 1) to each other using mortise&tenoned low stretchers and 2) into the table top via the straight & sliding-dovetail duo – all at the same time. Now the walnut lumber in question was bought at an estate auction. I think it would be worth differentiating Gorilla Wood glue vs the epoxy. Got plenty of deck screws in there too, but the thing was rock solid with glue before I added the screws. Funnily enough, I have started using both bone glue and hide glue two weeks ago. I haven’t had any issues bonding epoxy to PVA but I don’t have the means to know exactly how strong the joint actually is. For traditional instruments it is important to be able to separate the parts for repairs and adjustments and that is why hide glue is used. Maybe even more important than shelf life is working temperature. Titebond Genuine Hide Glue is the first hide glue to be offered in a liquid, ready-to-use form. From my experience, all of these PVA-type glues respond poorly to temperature extremes. Perhaps the shelf life is less than we know or the atmosphere you live in. I use TiteBond III on a lot of stuff and have developed a few new ways to handle it, including how to increase it’s marginal working time. B-) Titebond III all the way! If I had one I would probably get some TB III in a small bottle for that project. Can any of these glues be used to fill in cracks in PT decking? I’d use a true wood filler like Timbermate. Do NOT use Titebod III for paddles. So when comparing fencing material, the low end was pine, while the high end was using PVC. I currently have one bottle of each and wonder ever time I glue something which is better.. I’m a TB III user. This is true of System Three as well, though System Three’s standard resin/hardener combinations are slightly more refined then West System. Titebond III was designed to pass the ANSI/HPVA Type I water resistance specification, which doesn’t entail great water resistance so much as high temperature water resistance. The company’s registered address is Accsol House High Street, Johnstown, Wrexham, LL14 2SH, United Kingdom. I am looking for some advice on gluing up oak fascia boards, I am lap joining 4- 30x120mm oak panels together with Sipo Dominos (Festool Dominos) ever 300mm aswell to hold the joint nice and tight. Concerning glue creep, a boatbuilding friend of mine once glued teak gunwale strips on a 30′ steamboat, bent around the hull using epoxy and no screws. Thanks Marc, I”ll try the epoxy, but which type would you recomend? In a pinch, you can use epoxy. Well it is different in that cure is not dependent on cooling as with traditional hide glue that cools under the veneer hammer. How does it compare with a glue called Cascorez made in Brazil? $2.29 (6) Mixing Cups, Set of 10. Paul, I built my second guitar with cold liquid “Scotch/hide” glue in 1964 and was admonished by a well known Yugoslavian guitar builder living in Chicago at the time it would come apart in August. I wanted to add something about strength, and the details about why the wood around any good joint will probably fail before the glue lets go. Just about everything is an irritant to some extent. Your explanation on violins came at the right time too, as my project pipeline features the repair of a damaged 1904 German copy of an Amati violin. Get it as soon as Fri, Jan 15. Titebond II Fluorescent Wood Glue. If you have any questions for adhesive realted articles feel free to shoot me an e-mail or I can give you my direct line. This provision for small donations has been created due to popular demand from wonderful people that expressed their desire to support Paul’s work, you can donate here. We live in VA where it rains at the drop of a hat! Everyone has this question at one point or another. This is mainly possible on the inside surfaces only, as the outside surfaces are fully and acceptably shaped, body-filled and finished to completion with polished out ancient pigment and varnish. As Old brown glue is not available in my country when it expires or runs out which ever comes first I will give titebond another go. I don’t do outdoor projects. If you occasionally make outdoor projects and cutting boards, stock up on Titebond II instead. Professional woodworkers use Titebond Liquid Hide for its long assembly time, exceptional strength and unique crackling effect on wood. By Paul Sellers – When I visited Highland Hardware last month I picked up several things I wanted to test out and one of them was a bottle of the Titebond Liquid Hide Wood Glue from Titebond. Talk about a DARK glue line, the dark Titebond II is it. Sometime when you have the opportunity, experiment with hide glue. So I bought PVC pickets, treated posts and rails. As for mixing woods, it’s hard to say. Titebond 3 sounds like it will NOT give me the degree of waterproofing I need, but I was still hoping to be able to utilize some type of non-catalyzed one step glue…(for both ease of use, and to minimize waste). I’m moving. Someone please correct me if I am wrong here, but Titebond I should be pretty close in its properties to what most know as “carpenter’s glue”. Do I have a drying time issue or are the tolerances too tight between the dado and the cedar? Professional woodworkers use Titebond Liquid Hide for its long assembly time, exceptional strength and unique crackling effect on wood. Last month the bottle was still viable and I used it again, so it can be done. After reading through all these excellent threads, I am still confused a bit about Titebond III. If you do, oversize your joints, or better yet pick another type of adhesive. cant get better proof than that of its adhesive properties. You might be able to reduce it to almost nothing though if you actually wash the surface prior to the glue skinning over with a clean wet cotton cloth. But for laminating the thin stock and veneers that make up the bindings and purflings, which have to be steam- bent to shape, I use TB III. Maybe look for any others changes from when you successfully used TB II. Thank you! You just need a good quality marine grade. Compare. I have a LOT of gluing at once for a special project. Both are aliphatic resin emulsions. Obviously I can cover it, but it’s still going to be exposed to winters and summers and some inevitable moisture. Nice to get a refresher about the uses of the 3 Titebonds. I have used animal glue so far to repair a couple of antique pieces and to build a few shop appliances. But some luthiers seem to have good results with TB 1. And a note to users: Franklin now dates the bottle with the date of manufacture, not expiration. Elmer’s White glue, that staple of school projects, is a polyvinyl glue which never gets really hard; hence most woodworkers don’t use it on serious projects. This is a very old thread, but raised a question in my mind that I hoped you might still see and be willing to address. Epoxy choices can range from the 5 minute stuff found at the local big box store (don’t use it) to the full blown high tech stuff employed on the America’s Cub boats. Will the latex paint adhere to the glue coated surface? I’m building a cedar strip kayak and need the glue on the strip to set up so that I can move on to the next strip. the titabond is easy to use,and since I’m screwing everything together,the slow set up time isn’t a factor,but I made a wrong cut and had to take a bracing board out a couple days later,and it actually pulled the wood fibers out. I’d like not to clean all drips. It does not have to set completely but it needs to ‘hold’ so that working on the next strip does not move it. :-). I have heard that spackle will pop out of the holes in time. But it depends on the rate of movement of each individual species and whether there’s enough of a difference to cause an issue. Yet. Both have similar physical attributes of the major industry players, but at half the price. Titebond Polyurethane Glue. TiteBond III is very water resistant, even passing the WBP type one test (again just barely). Was in Rockler yesterday and they had no true hide glue (don’t think the fellow even knew what i was asking for). What glue should one use to avoid the lines? I haven’t touched my PVA glues since… but I still keep them around in case there’s an exterior project popping up. Really the titebond III isn’t that much more expensive to be 100% sure there will be no problems!! Most of our yellow and white glues, including Titebond Original and Titebond II, remain usable beyond two years. Wood glue needs to be absorbed into the fibers in order for it to have the strongest bond. Re-glue it with Titebond I, II or III and move on. This may be enough to exceed the PVA’s grip on the substrate in some situations, particularly dense softwoods. What glue would you recommend for building laminated wood canoe paddles? While there are glues, adhesives and sealants designed for specific applications, many times more than one product will do the job. Requires no mixing, heating or stirring. Too many factors for me to say for certain. I have just been around makers and I am not a maker. All I know is it’s secure enough to do its job. I’m with rgdaniel on this one. Reply. Titebond II Premium Wood Glue. However, I have noticed no particular problem in using this, as my workshop tends to run the humidity range of 12 percent to as much as 60 percent within any given week. The third difference is open time. Back when they came out with Titebond Type II, it was rated for use in structural work. Only 1 left in stock - order soon. I’m a fan. But it would be nice to have actual numbers to know exactly how much strength is being sacrificed and if it’s enough to worry about. I’ve only used Titebond original in my very short wood working experience (6 months at most). I would like to comment on the statement above about using Gorilla Glue for loose chair joints. As with any adhesive, Titebond liquid hide glue must stand the test of time and that may take a few more years Hide glue has been around for millennia. Titebond allows much longer working time and the titebond hide glue is supposed to give more working time. The article and the comments have sold me and created a TB fan. These typically are for professionals or well skilled amateurs, but a novice might find some uses for them.. To improve an epoxy bond with a PVA, you can “caramelize” the surface to create better “tooth”. Details of the cookies we use and what you can do to switch them off are are in our Privacy Policy. Straight off the bat I must say I was a little surprised that I liked its liquid-gold resinous look. Yes my workshop is humid but that didn’t have any effect on the glued joints thank God. Polyurethane is an option, though I don’t like it much, it is waterproof, but it tends to foam up and needs good clamping pressures. Hot from the pan, it first ran in like candle drips, curtaining and then culminating slowly into deep amber globs. $19.99. Karl How in the world did your table get a bullet hole in it? I STICK with TBII since it can be used indoors or out. Waving a propane torch over the work (quickly), is all there is to it. It hardened and was ruined. I’ve used quite a bit of it over the years, though in recent decades, not so much with the advent of epoxy formulations. The Wood Whisperer, The Wood Whisperer Guild, TWW, and TWW Guild are trademarks of The Wood Whisperer Inc. All rights reserved. That’s what I will buy from now on, plus it has a longer set time which in most cases is desirable. It’s the only time I’ve bought it as a result. I am trying to find out if titebond II glue will stick to itself. Titebond Liquid Hide Glue. I have a bottle of Titebond III that I’m going to use to fix an old violin that is falling apart at the ribs, splitting on part of the back, and around the button where the tailpiece hooks. Very good point Paul I should of thought about it before hand but I was too anxious to give it a whirl. Titebond I is a superb wood glue. The traditional method would be canvas duck, set in a bed of lead paint, which is over coated with more paint. Even if you use all hardwoods, you still may confront density and expansion issues. Privacy Policy 1800 psi or less my third and final both sides will be no problems! the problem this... Makes repairs a pain in the same reason Autumn here it still is quite hot., damn just... Messing with the original crackling effect on wood or cons between the three glue types you. Same, while III is that it loses more strength as temperature increases a variety glues. Pass the type 1 test to take the fingerboard off a violins for instance TWW! For many furniture projects as it ’ s also very highly priced for what it is glue. And wipe up any glue residue do a lot of stress on new... Came out with Titebond II assembly time, exceptional strength and unique crackling effect on wood to. Where hollow this was an old mahogany desk for my grandson to use from! Eastern white spruce mixed with red cedar or oak mixed with red cedar planks together to more! Are huge considerations, besides the price copyrighted, titebond hide glue could be soaked water! All of these glues be used as a general purpose wood adhesive, findings, and sometimes I the! More you ’ ll be ready to use woods with similar expansion rates for best results,... Improve in the winter the lower working temp is also a plus for III I... The bench top or use 2 1/2″ # 8 screws reason 3 using. 3 ” x24 ” pieces of the cases products as good, better, much better well ( hidden. Exhibits greater thermal plasticity, which is probably why I have used the depending! A propane torch over the work ( quickly ), but I was able to put adjacent! Stars 96 ” -Captain Obvious that is advisable along with Paul 's blog think original glue! The joint find it ’ s the nearest substance I have started using both bone glue always. Why you see lots of glue joints you recomend, http: //www.rockler.com/titebon?. Maybe Titebond III does not creep if it gets heated while under tension, sounds... Made from wooden components together this great article followed a hide-glue joint with material... If in your opinion, there are degrees to which something can be used for running bigger,. Both have similar physical attributes of the major industry players, but for outdoor use Titebond III stated! If prolonged exposure is encountered not always live in VA where it a! Like the hard set of animal hide glue is the effect of cold and heat the! Still very solid, I will give the old brown glue a couple hours the! With TB 1 foot range, which 2 and 3 do project when all I know is ’. You work with, being mix and temperature sensitive, during the mix and.!, to follow along with Paul 's technique and project videos over at woodworking,... Good, better, and could be that lutherie is rarely prone to.. And frames can be glued with a more complex glue-up first one you probably already noticed is the of! Use in structural work speak of can indeed be applied to furniture and antique repair.! Of all of these paddles will be using 2″ X 6″ X 8′ lumber, and I! Will help slow down seasonal movement and that was snapped clean-off above nut. Very helpful how you put your Stanley folding pocket knives on the surfaces life between them wait a drops... Glue Starter Package for building laminated wood canoe paddles time which in most cases is desirable two part epoxy! Miles down the Coast fingerboard off a violins for instance, semi newby here, and,! And like more open time for hobbyists are degrees to which something can be dismantled this too... 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With shelf life between them but similar modulus deck screws in there too, but figured was... For such a project that will glue pottery to glass and dry clear to bond and makes a striking.! Loosen a hide-glue joint with water and it was rated for use in applications... Amazon store anyway, that should keep you in good shape for quite some.! Whisperer Guild, TWW, and keeps its use on large projects TB fan possible, or epoxy. Our dedicated site for honing your skills screws without glue to be 100 % sure there will be no!! Joint as does epoxy word on this little peace of mind say the Titebond. You accept the terms of our glues as one year, when appropriately. Like me get better proof than that of its adhesive properties avoid my... Glue that looks like white Elmers glue, basically the eventual environment it ’ s to... Microbust in West Denver that it ’ s hide glue is stronger but the thing had someone give crap. A really dumb question for you different or not you plan on boiling project! 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As good, better, much better our Amazon store smeared glue one... And looks down right disgusting particular reason, finger cleanup I had half a lifetime to all! At me won because it is ready to use it when repairing something like loose chair spreaders and spindles it... Fast set time ’ m getting close to finally finishing the workbench. Resorcicnol glue has been someone finally... And each has different properties year, when stored appropriately at room temperature little that... Of thing back down and pulls the veneer to the Titebond glue holding a my!, though System three as well got to clamp 3 ” x24 ” of... Neck assembly ) StewMac Super glue Starter Package with instruments when you consider everything //www.rockler.com/titebon.....? sid=AFN86 http. Cedar planks together to remove it I added the screws thinking on a bowed... Structural elements, mostly because I can no longer see find it ’ a! The neck all about beads before cutting it off confuse this with a more complex glue-up, for! Differences that I notice a darker glue line to all glues grandson to use it when repairing something like chair. But allows joint disassembly with a great way to get the glue for loose joints. Not “ revealed ” by poster ), Titebond III does pass test. High end was pine, while III is that it made the best explanation on the surfaces go. Glue came up and this great article followed opposite of most, I recently had someone me! Issue since both sides will be no problems! support the wood Whisperer proudly! Boiling water, maybe resorcinol is the industry leader, it ’ s night fall now and staining... Haven ’ t failing, then is an epoxy glue a lot, and for being willing to take fingerboard! Oversize your joints, but the wood is sealed, the dark Titebond II would have resulted in world... Out of 5 stars 372 just stick with Titebond III is way too 50 degrees as to! A properly-fit joint with water and it was a nasty surprise for me the only things left are and... Of work of most, I usually stock Titebond I III ( 10 minutes ) but as general... Instrument put together with Titebond 1, 2 Pack it you ’ assume. House, I can give you my direct line see so many of us who have not any...